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Zsnes vs Snes9x: It begins

32K views 44 replies 11 participants last post by  Nintendo Maniac 
#1 ·
It's come to my attention that, despite not having been updated since 2006, Zsnes remains to be the most popular emulator among gamers, the reasons for this are widely varied. First and foremost, the GUI, it's old-school, it's easy to navigate and overall, very user friendly, second, it's a very very fast emulator and can run on anything that Windows 95 had as long as the processor was 200 MHz or so. Another reason, is people are comfortable with which they are used to and if they don't see a reason to change or upgrade, they likely won't, such is with the case of Zsnes. Without looking at it closely, most games appear to behave normally, but comparing it to a more accurate emulator, like Snes9x and

Higan, many games do not behave normally at all. Zsnes focuses purely on speed, accuracy is dead last, as it was written in pure ASM (assembly) to make it run as fast as possible on weaker machines, but this comes at a cost, many games have quirks that affect the experience.

First issue: Games with co-processors, such as the Super FX/SuperFX-2, S-DD1, Cx4, DSP-1, SA-1, etc all have their sets of issues, listed here, http://emulation-general.wikia.com/wiki/ZSNES#Review

all chips are clocked weirdly and some games run faster than they should, Star Fox, Star Ocean, to name a couple.

Second issue: Transparency, some games used pseudo hi-res mode 7, such as the forest levels in Kirby's Dream Land 3, in Zsnes 1.51, you have to use the old graphics engine by pressing 8, otherwise, trees and underwater levels are opaque and not translucent. Example herehttp://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net...-forest.gif/revision/latest?cb=20130407030521

Third issue: Some games will lockup randomly after a long time of playing, for example Der Langrisser, Super Mario RPG will lock up after two or so hours for no reason at all, Snes9x, Bsnes/Higan do not exhibit this issue.

Fourth issue: Sound, this one's a real killer and hard to notice by many users. Given the fact I have very sensitive hearing, I can pick out bad sound when it's emulated poorly. Most games on Zsnes sound horrible, music not so much, but sound effects stick out like a sore thumb. Some games used a form of audio streaming from the S-SMP (part of the SPC700 processor), Earthworm Jim 2 being one of those games. Zsnes has music, but most of the sound effects, including Jim's voice, are missing.


A video showing the issues in Zsnes, skip to 1:41 to listen to how bad it sounds, games should not have missing sound effects. Both Higan and Snes9x have cycle-accurate S-SMP emulation, meaning compared to a real Snes, it should sound pretty bloody close to the real thing, so close, that one can't tell a difference. This here, is the main reason I don't like Zsnes that much is the fact the sound if so off, and that people don't hear the difference, and is something that I at least wish to address to people who read this thread :) Another killer? The Lavos scream from Chrono Trigger, only two emulators get it right ^_^ http://filetrip.net/view?Ak8TbwrRqs

Now, some people may argue, “But wait, if Zsnes works so well for me, why should I change to Snes9x or Higan when I'm so comfortable with Zsnes?” There's a solution for those who want better emulation, but want to keep the Zsnes GUI, there's actually a mod of Snes9x that uses the old GUI, called ZMZ http://www.smwcentral.net/?p=section&a=details&id=5681 It uses the libretro core of Snes9x (same cores RetroArch uses), so the best of both worlds.

OH! And for those who want to truly test between the two, listen to this :D

Snes9x Super Mario World warp pipe - http://filetrip.net/view?ltjVDgEufF
Zsnes Super Mario World warp pipe - http://filetrip.net/view?cW1oCDe4vh

Pros and cons of each emulator:

Zsnes:
+ User friendly
+ Nostalgic GUI
+ Easy to find and add in-game cheat codes
+ Fast forward, rewind, water/flame effects in GUI
+ Runs on practically all machines with at least 200 MHz and 32 MB RAM
- Poor sound emulation
- Many games behave strangely and some run too fast
- Hasn't been updated since 2007 or so
- GUI is quite dated
- Compatibility lowest of all Snes emulators

(Sound sample: http://filetrip.net/view?cW1oCDe4vh This is not how the warp pipe should sound)

Snes9x:
+ Cycle-accurate sound thanks to Blargg's S-SMP core (passed all hardware tests)
+ Games that require special timing and audio streaming work
+ Sleek GUI
+ High compatibility (only 2nd behind Higan)
+ Games with co-processors run at the correct clock speed
+ Games don't lock up at random
- Not as accurate as Higan, to be blunt only a few games use dot-rendering as opposed to scanline rendering, Higan is the only emulator that does this (or whatever he calls it)
- GUI not as easy to navigate as the one in Zsnes.
Sound in Snes9x, this is how the warp pipe SHOULD sound http://filetrip.net/view?ltjVDgEufF

Comments, feedback, what do you guys think? ^_^ I want to prove to the Temp that not only can I discuss something like this civilly, but also, to help me become better at debating topics, to help develop an appreciation for discussions in general :D I look forward to hearing your replies :D This isn't to force people to change sides, but to help make aware the issues that plague Zsnes and to bring them to others' attention :) Please keep this civil :3
 
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#2 ·
I have used both and the main issue i had with Zsnes was there were a few RPGs it did not run well...mainly the JAP ones that were translated. I remember playing the original Star Ocean on it and getting about 16 hours into it and it would not take me any further...was so mad. Also the sound quality was pretty bad. Moved to Snes9x about 2 years ago and never looked back.
 
#3 ·
Same here, once I moved to Snes9x, never went back, everything just runs so much better, better sound, better stability, Star Ocean ran too fast on Zsnes and would always lock up at a certain part, I think it was the town of Coule I believe. The sound still is pretty bad.
 
#5 ·
Didn't know that, but after speaking to the developers on the IRC channel, I know it's gonna be ported to Android, however, contrary to belief, it will use better/updated code. I don't know why Zsnes isn't open source, though it really should be.
 
#6 ·
I made the switch to snes9x immediately after my super mario rpg saves started disappearing. I was pretty hot about that. Snes9x works wonders though. I had to make my own scanlines for it because the lines are too far apart on theirs. Other than that, it takes care of all my SNES needs.
 
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#9 ·
Of course, however there are people that still firmly believe that "Snes9x is s**t" and that Zsnes is somehow far more superior lol.
 
#13 · (Edited)
#15 · (Edited)
There's no denying that it's S-SMP (sound) emulation is pretty off, or that the CPU timing is also quite askew; as a result, many games do not behave normally or even remotely close. Did you have a chance to listen to those audio samples above?
 
#17 ·
Edited last post, yesterday was a very off day for me. Have you had a chance to listen to those samples of Zsnes and Snes9x side by side?
 
#19 ·
Perhaps the pipe near a toilet :D LOL
 
#20 ·
#1 reason I still use ZSNES. All of my save states.
I have literally hundreds of them, and I don't want to try to rebuild all that progress in dozens of games.

It works fine for most games. If ever Byuu decides to make a ZSNES->Hiru save state converter(not likely), I would totally switch.
 
#21 ·
That's a valid enough reason, as some game don't have in-game saving, unfortunately. But the main point of the thread was to point out Zsnes' flaws, mostly.
 
#22 ·
#23 ·
It uses the Snes9x libretro core, which is pretty cool.
 
#25 ·
Some people stick to Zsnes solely for the old school GUI, though the Zsnes developers are working on an Android port and a QTGUI so, they too have abandoned the DOS look. Too be, it's a turnoff, I used to use Zsnes, but last week someone posted on my Snes9x vs Zsnes video and told me "the Snes9x GUI is shit". Lol okay buddy, if you say so. The fact so many people are hellbent on defending an old emulator is laughable.
 
#26 ·
Completely ridiculous that anyone in their right mind would still use zsnes lol. SNES9x has been king for so long I can barely even remember anything else. The GUI hard to manage? Not really. Anyone using an emulator I would hope has the brain cells to navigate a couple menus. But this is planet earth here and people are helpless so.... anyway with xBRZ getting coded into SNES9x there is nothing else to say. It's perfect for those of us with large screens and aversion to large pixels.
 
#27 ·
I've had a few people on my YouTube channel blast me for defending Snes9x, claiming that Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 and Star Wars games sounded like "s**t" on Snes9x while sound superior on Zsnes. Here's the thing, Snes9x uses the exact S-SMP/SPC700 core as Bsnes, programmed and passing all hardware tests thanks to Blargg. So, I really don't see how any game, save the few that uses dot-based S-PPU rendering (only a few actually require that), other than that, Snes9x is still a very good emulator, way better than Zsnes will ever be, until 2.0 comes out.
 
#30 ·
Yeah, I used Zsnes for some time myself, then I began to use SNeEse (or however you spelled it), which had Anomie's S-SMP core, and when I played Chrono Trigger, I was blown away and asked myself, "That's what it's supposed to sound like!?" I was blown away and for a long time, that was the closest to the real thing, then came Bsnes and then Blargg's S-SMP core, which Snes9x soon adapted later and thankfully so. I can't differentiate between the real deal and Snes9x audio core, that's how good it is :D


Funnily enough I was commenting on youtube vids, cuz I am really sick of zsnes idiots, and I came across your vids randomizer. Doing the work of god I say! lol

Yeah, the ZSNES bull is something that needs to die. Misinformed people with no clue as to what they are talking about. Maybe more updates will make it better but I have no need for it. SNES9x as said provides xBRZ now and that is basically what I want if I'm not going for purity. It's the only filter worth talking about as far as I am concerned if you aren't doing zero filters.

ZSNES has been inaccurate for so long I don't even know what to say. One of those things that was cool for like 10 minutes much like the Xbox gamma problem, and then people started misinforming vast numbers of people that wrong is right, etc. And if you are looking for total accuracy and nothing but you definitely use BSNES or Higan is what it is called now, but hey, some of us still like filtered.

I know some purists hate but man does xBRZ look so damn nice and accurate to my eyes.
I personally don't call them anything other than Zsnes drones, blind to the truth that is the real console or at least something more accurate :D Many Snes games used a form of audio streaming, like Earthworm Jim 2, which is why on Zsnes it has music, but most sound effects are pops/squeaks and there is no voice samples at all, sad really. Not to mention the badly-timed special chips, like the SuperFX chip and Star Fox or S-DD1 and Star Ocean running twice as fast as it should, it's pretty bad. While I can't, nor should I force people to accept my opinions, I want to at least make it be known as to why Zsnes isn't the godlike emulator they regard it as.
 
#29 · (Edited)
Funnily enough I was commenting on youtube vids, cuz I am really sick of zsnes idiots, and I came across your vids randomizer. Doing the work of god I say! lol

Yeah, the ZSNES bull is something that needs to die. Misinformed people with no clue as to what they are talking about. Maybe more updates will make it better but I have no need for it. SNES9x as said provides xBRZ now and that is basically what I want if I'm not going for purity. It's the only filter worth talking about as far as I am concerned if you aren't doing zero filters.

ZSNES has been inaccurate for so long I don't even know what to say. One of those things that was cool for like 10 minutes much like the Xbox gamma problem, and then people started misinforming vast numbers of people that wrong is right, etc. And if you are looking for total accuracy and nothing but you definitely use BSNES or Higan is what it is called now, but hey, some of us still like filtered.

I know some purists hate but man does xBRZ look so damn nice and accurate to my eyes.
 
#31 ·
It's amazing to me the attachment to ZSNES people have. I switched to bsnes years ago because I had problems initially with SNES9x. I stopped updating bsnes past v073 because the newer user interface and the forced library system in what is now called Higan is terrible.

The ONLY reason I use ZSNES is when I'm testing a ROM hack and I need to be at a certain location of the game and the only save states available are ZSNES save states.

I had some emulation errors when I converted my ROMS from .smc to .sfc using the tool from bsnes. This was necessary to do the whole folder system. I spent a week making them all folders and taking screenshots for the folder's GUI. After all was said and done, I felt burned by Higan when it switched to a library system that COPIES your ROM into its own folder with save files and all. And it decided to rename them to what appeared to be GOODSNES names. What's terrible about that is with ROM hacks and secondary copies of a ROM.

I switched to using current builds of SNES9x and I've been completely satisfied. No issues with ROMs and it lets me set locations for my ROM files, save files, etc. I have one library file per console setup with folders - ROMs, Saves, States, screenshots, cheats. It allows me to use old ZSNES, bsnes v073, and SNES9x when I need to, but 99% of the time I only use SNES9x now.
 
#34 ·
Ouch, do you have a link, I'd love to educate our misinformed friends who think Zsnes is better. Though oddly enough, Zsnes 2.0 is confirmed to being in the works, and have personally spoken to Pagefault personally about this. Zsnes 1.53 will be out within the next couple of weeks, as an intermediary release.
Remember, ZMZ is your friend in those situations.
I've an odd issue with that, audio crackles no matter what, can't even use XAudio2 API with it, so it sounds bad on Windows 7 -_-
 
#35 ·
You would think that with my sig, either Final Fantasy IV or VI are my favorite RPGs, but Chrono Trigger tops that list. Both Final Fantasy games have that strange text box issue in ZSNES and IIRC the Mist Cave had to have fog disabled to get through it.

Chrono Trigger though, I just couldn't stomach the horrid monster sound effects. It doesn't even sound right.

The thing is, I really wonder how big a new release for ZSNES will be. Will it be the updated SNES emulator people have been waiting for?
 
#36 ·
You would think that with my sig, either Final Fantasy IV or VI are my favorite RPGs, but Chrono Trigger tops that list. Both Final Fantasy games have that strange text box issue in ZSNES and IIRC the Mist Cave had to have fog disabled to get through it.

Chrono Trigger though, I just couldn't stomach the horrid monster sound effects. It doesn't even sound right.

The thing is, I really wonder how big a new release for ZSNES will be. Will it be the updated SNES emulator people have been waiting for?
Yup, it will have Blargg's S-SMP core, which is what Snes9x and Bsnes have been using, so it will be spot on to the real deal. Zsnes 1.51 was released in 2006, which was way before Blargg even wrote it, but Anomie's S-SMP core did exist back then. I believe SnesGT and SNeEsE (Is that how you spell it?) had that core and for a long time had the best Snes sound emulation.
 
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