rpcs3 - a beginning

Discussion in 'Emulation News Submissions' started by IvicaMarkovic, Jul 22, 2011.

  1. IvicaMarkovic

    IvicaMarkovic Member

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    Well, at least it's finally started. PS3 emulator ( well, not yet an emulator just a debugger for now). Supprised no one commented this yet. Yes, it's years away, and yes, the hardware capable for even 10fps is years away, but what is important, it is a start. Good luck Hykem!!!
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  3. @ruantec

    @ruantec Crazy GFX coder Emu Author

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    You should post a link at least so that people see what you're talking about...

    rpcs3
  4. the cool guy

    the cool guy loves weird al

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    yup ps3 emulation is closer then people think..
  5. @ruantec

    @ruantec Crazy GFX coder Emu Author

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    I personally don't believe that until proven wrong... there are lots of problems to solve in order to even try proper PS3 emulation. i may be wrong but a "Try" may be possible anytime soon but a usable PS3 emulator is a different story...
  6. the cool guy

    the cool guy loves weird al

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    5-6 years and will have something playable i bet we have graphics cards that have over 4 gb of ram imagine what we will have in 5 -6 years nods head
  7. @ruantec

    @ruantec Crazy GFX coder Emu Author

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    Am not talking about the hardware at all tho. but more of the complexity of the entire system that makes things hard for every experienced coder. i personally have coded lots of things in my coder career and i usually never give up. however i would think twice before thinking in writing one.
  8. Kaizen

    Kaizen Qu'ils mangent de la brioche Award Winner!

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    That doesn't matter. Ram is a gas tank, not an engine.

    Is there any proper leaked ps3 documentation yet?
    The important limitation right now is proper hardware docs.
  9. lagunareturns

    lagunareturns Active Member

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    seesh cant even people read the documentation about the emulator, it wont ever run commercial games its more of a debugger for homebrew and later on emulator for homebrew just to see if their homebrew works... the chances of commercial games of working will be very slim, and even if they get around to run commercial games, it will be a long while before they reach the title screen and even longer getting beyond that
  10. the cool guy

    the cool guy loves weird al

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    we know that which is why i said 5 - 6 years and something playable if they even make on
  11. IvicaMarkovic

    IvicaMarkovic Member

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    Remember the beggining of PCSX2 in 2001? The circumstances were the same, lack of documentations, only two devs, and they hoped just to make some homebrew run. Before rpcs3 we hoped that something like that will start eventualy, in a few years. Now when someone actually work on this, my hopes are not unrealistic.
  12. @ruantec

    @ruantec Crazy GFX coder Emu Author

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    @ - IvicaMarkovic: While i have to admit that you have point about PCSX2 the situation now is quite different with the PS3. its not just the lack of documentation that makes it hard to code but also the complexity of the hardware/system and lets just forget about the firmware requirement on different games that puts it in a similar situation to the Xbox Emulation and different SDK making compatibility and development even worst.

    i hope am proven wrong but to be honest i personally don't see it comming...
  13. LoRd_SnOw

    LoRd_SnOw Member

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    Not at all, you hit the nail on the right on the head, with so many games requiring different firmware revisions, this makes it one wicked nightmare.

    I do believe, the situation gets much worse, unfortunately. If i'm not mistaken, and i'll try to say this the best way that i can... The reason this makes so much difficult is that:

    One we have the cellbb which is a nightmare to emulate and with no documentations... Second, the encryption is very complex and can take a very long time to figure out and process, especially on today's machines. Finally, there are other things to take into consideration like trying to emulate the Graphics Synthesizer and sound, mind you which also lacks any kind of documentation at the moment.

    So yeah, it's probably possible, but for some not in their life time. :dead:
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2011
  14. lagunareturns

    lagunareturns Active Member

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    i reckon 5-6 years is too optimistic, if it was ps2 that would be realistic but for ps3 we are looking at least 10 years before any game (aside from the minis) to be playable graphics and sound and I not saying it will even a playable fps in that time frame if other emulators are to go by.
  15. cottonvibes

    cottonvibes You're already dead... Emu Author

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    i don't think the ps3's hardware complexity (excluding w/e security features it has) is that much harder than the ps2's. its just that the components are running at much faster speeds --- but that doesn't add to emulation complexity (just means you need much faster hardware to run the emulator on). it being big endian is a pain though and does add to the emulation complexity when emulating on little endian machines. (btw i'm not saying its not hard to emulate the ps3, but i'm saying its something that can be achieved by a good team with a lot of hard work)

    i don't know the details on whatever security/decryption stuff needs to be done. my guess is an emulator might be able to use a combination of HLE and making itself look like its always running in the GameOS mode to avoid complexities of accurately implementing the hypervisor and getting different firmware to work. this is the practical way to emulate the ps3 imo; although i don't have experience doing something like that, and it would probably take a lot of clever thinking to make it work.
  16. cottonvibes

    cottonvibes You're already dead... Emu Author

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    i think if skilled people work hard on it, then they can get something working in 6 years.
    but the problem is that i don't think many skilled people have an interest in emulating the ps3.
    i think the ratio of complexity-to-good games is too high to make people interested.
    if there's not enough interest, then the scene won't go anywhere. its like the xbox emulation scene which is pretty dead aside from a few devs.
  17. P_RePTiLe

    P_RePTiLe PReP - Lizard of Reason

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    (Obviously not intended as a reply to the post above, just in general :))

    please. read. "hykemthedemon".
  18. Cid Highwind

    Cid Highwind The Hunter

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    There's always workaround to be implemented, people can be very crafty. But still, I do agree with you that it's wishfull thinking. I'd definitely encourage everyone for trying something, but without documentation they're just working in the dark, messing around, hoping to strike gold :)
  19. @ruantec

    @ruantec Crazy GFX coder Emu Author

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    Yeah, am more than confident that is doable if a group of skilled coders try it out as cotton already stated. however there are certain things that need to be taken in consideration and also the reason why i wrote that post. first is the fact that the lack of information makes the whole thing a terrible and hard experience even to very experienced coders... second is the complexity of the system where i wasn't actually talking about the hardware itself but more of the stuff required to get something partially working on it that may give some troubles.

    last but not least is the time required to realize such thing... lets say a skilled group takes 5 - 6 years to code such a Emulator.... but lets face the cruel truth... how many skilled coders keep coding for such a long time in a single project??? i for one do not know a single one as the fun tend to die after few years and let alone real life problems etc. because of that i think that a PS3 Emulator may not appear anytime soon.

    obviously i would love to be proven wrong :)
  20. P_RePTiLe

    P_RePTiLe PReP - Lizard of Reason

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    jpcsp is not a joke out of the air project (even though i don't like java),
    and hykem has worked on that, for one.
    The point is not that i know if he is a godsent as a developer - but, he is not mr randomdude wanna' chase dreams at least- The started effort is legit.

    And yeah, years of work is required on emulating systems, be it poor documentation, the trouble of making something vastly different from x86 work on pc, or that it has not been done before.

    And finally, yes, people grow tired from time to time, and dedication is important.
    PCSX2 and Dolphin (as examples) has also taken a considerable amount of time to get were they are now - pcsx2 more so.
    And they, and us commenting it, is not expecting "omg gamez play" happen anytime soon, it even itself claiming to atleast working up a base dissasembling.

    Bottom line is that just randomly going "haha, it is just a dream" is not exactly entitled to this case, this time - a slow start, might die, and others might pick discovered things up (has happened to other emulators in the past)
    And we should atleast be curious and see how this takes shape during the years :)
  21. @ruantec

    @ruantec Crazy GFX coder Emu Author

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    Well i didn't meant that its not going to happen but more that i doubt that a PS3 emu will appear as quick as people expect it to appear where i fear that it may take far more than 5-6 from now to appear. my problem is that am not that optimistic specially when i see a project that may be quite complex and require hard work. that may sound rough but at least people prepare themselves and wait the necessary time and do not create false hopes.

    its really great to see people trying at least to get somewhere and nobody knows.... maybe someone strike gold ;)
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2011

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