Windows 10: Microsoft's incompetence mirror

Discussion in 'Software Discussion' started by @ruantec, Mar 14, 2016.

  1. @ruantec

    @ruantec Crazy GFX coder Emu Author

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    The day has come to write down my thoughts about Windows 10 and MS in general with their recent moves. As many know i'm a lover of their coding tools and eco-system in general but at the same time i can't tolerate nor support Microsoft's incompetence to this days which i believe is the reason why people are losing respect for a company that in my opinion is the reason why we are where we are.

    Windows 10 in general feels better than Windows 8... ON A DESKTOP and the moment is used as everything else becomes the biggest mess i have ever seen in my life. Lets start talking a little about the mobile aspect of this abortion so let's talk about TILES a concept that makes what Windows is since Windows 8. From a technical standpoint the idea of using tiles is genious but from a UI design standpoint is a monstrosity that leads to more mess because there is no practicable way to define the UI flow properly.

    The steps of a proper designed UI can be defined with 5 simple steps:

    1. 2 steps to access a function is too much
    2. Lighting and colorization
    3. Flexibility
    4. Functionality
    5. Simplicity

    Nowdays design is more important than ever as that's what people care. You want to have a slick design in your applications while working on your slick device. Now when you take in count all those 5 points what do you see here?

    [​IMG]

    Correct.... too many steps, no proper lighting and colorization, no flexibility, no functionality and no simplicity. While the concept is a novel idea it's simply badly executed and is the result of MS incompetence to provide a good user experience the way people expect to have on those devices. Is MS really incapable of providing such a experience because of the limited API?

    ABSOLUTELY NOT!

    First of all i can't stop saying that the technology and coding tools behind MS devices are simply awesome and is the reason why i love their tools so much. When it comes to design you have this awesome tool that allows you to create stunning design and animations to provide a great user experience:

    [​IMG]

    With that tool you can create advanced UI design with ease putting other tools to develope applications to shame. Then you have visual studio which is not just free now but has evolve into a beast and pretty awesome tool in my humble opinion as a coder. Now why are developers unable to provide a great user experience?. Part of the problem are developers that simply put suck big time at proper UI design but big part of the problem is Microsoft incompetence and wrong design ideas.

    The UI of Windows 10 should not be limited and restricted the way it is right now as there is absolutely no reason for that. Microsoft itself has been pushing MVVM all those years but there is an issue behind it that i can't comprehend which has lead to some kind of mess and is because of two fundamental points:

    1. Developers incompetence to comprehend MVVM learning curve
    2. Microsoft incompetence to teach and use that pattern properly

    Why do i say this? separating UI from code is a old technique and MS technology such as XAML, bindings and C# allows that in a level never seen before and of course Microsoft knows that. To give you an example please check my MVVM tutorials to give you an idea of what i'm talking about:

    http://ngemu.com/threads/part-4-new-wpf-mvvm-tutorial-c.161609/

    How is flexibility done? the entire UI is flexible and MS use MVVM itself behind the Windows 10 UI and is a big part of their development process which i found out by a bug while testing preview versions of the OS in the past. The UI itself bounds to a certain logic in order to display what's going on and that's exactly what happened here in the background. However, that is not what you get to see on your display but instead an abortion of UI that don't make you wonder why everyone hate it.

    [RANT]
    Why isn't MS smashing the head of those incapable engineers and kicking their asses out of the company? why the fuck are they so stupid to focus on one thing and do it better? because Microsoft is a old stubborn company that can be compared to a old stubborn grandpa.

    The idiots should swallow their abomination of design and i'm fucking done with their shit when it comes to mobile. I really liked my Windows Phones but is definitely the last Windows phone i will probably own and the same goes for Windows tablets as they are affected by the same fucking shit that is the damn stupid design behind Windows.

    Shame on you Microsoft!
    [/RANT]
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2016
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  3. Hard core Rikki

    Hard core Rikki Super Moderator Staff Member Award Winner!

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    The kind of people that can lead a technical transformation have fled to startups. The contradictions between desktops, mobiles and Xbox can't be resolved by slapping the same UI on top of them, even if each platform is given a different look/skin.
    Those remaining are stuck into the planned future's touch-centric, voice enabled ecosystem of hardware and only trying to shoehorn that vision on desktop, for free and by force if necessary.

    Tiles are a novel concept in theory... but great only for tablets, whose display estate on iOS and Android is generally wasted and the content there very static.
    On smartphones, the most useful kind of information live tiles display is literally notification count (for calls, messages, emails, status updates...). Everything else is fluff only designed to catch your attention and distract you from whatever you wanted to do.
  4. Samor

    Samor CEO and Chief Editor of Samor Foundry

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    I was very curious about Windows Mobile and even bought a Lumia 535 as an experiment of sorts. However, MS seems to have given up on this version of the OS and I've decided not to go with Windows Mobile as my phone OS of choice. I'll remain with Android. I will still use the 535 as an experimentation device but I'm not holding my breath anymore.

    The tiles worked good on Windows 8 tablets and I think also on Denim, but Windows 10 is worse on both of these devices (tablets, at least, I still haven't been able to properly test drive a fully finished build on Windows Mobile 10. I've briefly touched a Lumia 950 XL though and I liked it, I just don't trust MS' commitment at all.)
  5. @ruantec

    @ruantec Crazy GFX coder Emu Author

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    @Hard core Rikki @Samor

    MS efforts in the mobile sector are clear and they have brought a lot of cool features that shows that. The problem here in my opinion are the people behind the scenes that while being great engineers they have absolutely no taste nor idea where they want to go. They seem planless testing here and there but without focus and pretty much like a boat without captain. The sad part of the story is that there is so much potential behind it but with terrible execution.

    The biggest proof is their now well known Universal Windows Platform(UWP). The main idea of a UWA is:

    1. Core application with logic
    2. Target platform assemblies
    3. UI specification for each platform

    When you consider those 3 simple points you realize that the developer have the core application and logic on every single device but adjustments need to be done for each specific platform. Now take the Tiles concept and look at what MS is trying to do here..... they are trying to use the exact same crap on every single device just to give the same look and functionality. As we said a novel idea but not just contradicts what they are trying to do with UWP but also show they aren't using common sense as everyone with a working brain knows is not gonna work.

    The technology behind is so flexible and awesome... why in hell isn't MS opening up to devs to create whatever the hell they want? something the likes of Android where vendors simply create a mask the way they want it. It's possible, is there, is called "XAML Bindings" and is not just super powerful and flexible but also secure as you just use the features available to you.


    I wish MS offer me a job position in their development division.... i believe i could do something for it. The whole situation is like someone sitting on a table trying to eat a soup with chopsticks and you saying "use the spoon you have on the table fool".
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2016
  6. Samor

    Samor CEO and Chief Editor of Samor Foundry

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    Well, seems MS is almost completely uninterested in Windows Mobile themselves now (except for maybe a passionate few). I hope they'll turn that around but I'm not holding my breath anymore. It's a shame as there was/is lots of potential.
    For example, I liked the idea of having a phone that's also a sort of Xbox mobile gaming device. The majority of the Xbox games on WP7 and 8 are discontinued/killed off though.
    I also liked the excellent apps like Office Lens, Outlook and Agenda mobile, which are now supported better on competing platforms.
    They've discontinued PhotoSphere and a host of other apps, or are updating them very slowly. It's a shame.
    I'm not going to use a platform with such a bleak future as my main phone.

    I also see very little reason why one would develop for WP now, aside from enterprise applications.
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2016
  7. @ruantec

    @ruantec Crazy GFX coder Emu Author

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    I choosed Windows Phones and tablets for the simple reason that i can use the tools i love and know how to work with knowing the downsides. With MS buying Xamarin we can now be sure that the compiler and tools of Windows can be used to develope Android and iOS applications which is awesome. That being said there is no more reason for me to have Windows mobile devices anymore. However, i could lose some tears thinking about the fact that Windows tablets and phones work so much better at certain scenarios than the competition.

    So much potential wasted.... it hurts.
  8. Samor

    Samor CEO and Chief Editor of Samor Foundry

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    It's a shame, but if UWP comes to Android and iOS instead you can still use the tools you love, for the platforms you (may) hate ;-)
    It seems this is the way MS is going, for mobile at least. They won't downright drop WinMobile but they're giving it the silent treatment.... seems I'll still get to see the finished build on the 535 at least.
  9. @ruantec

    @ruantec Crazy GFX coder Emu Author

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    I personally like Android quite a lot and iOS.... well.... you know my opinion about Apple products :p but with Xamarin now in the hands of MS it means there will be a fusion that will be great at the end. I will have to wait a bit until that happen but when it comes i will finally be able to use my favorite tools to create apps for every system.
  10. Samor

    Samor CEO and Chief Editor of Samor Foundry

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    I like Android too, it's my phone OS of choice for quite a few years now. I don't think it works as well for tablets though, because most of the apps aren't optimized for that.
  11. @ruantec

    @ruantec Crazy GFX coder Emu Author

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    Yeah, that's when MS shines here as their technology is so much flexible and works better. Android is great for phones and sucks on tablets in my opinion but have you ever used Android as a desktop OS? is like using Windows XP on a tablet :p
  12. Samor

    Samor CEO and Chief Editor of Samor Foundry

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    No, I haven't, I don't think it would work very well ;)
  13. ElijahTW

    ElijahTW NGemu Award Winner Award Winner!

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    I'm not a developer, but from a consumer standpoint, Microsoft hasn't done anything right since Windows 7.

    Windows 8, while okay on tablets was a a joke on desktop. (At least without Start8 or similar)

    Windows 10 is better than Windows 8 on a desktop, but I still don't like it. I want a desktop OS to stay out of the way as much as possible. I don't need live tiles or any of that bullshit, if I want information from that app, I'll open that app. I don't need my desktop to behave like a smart phone.

    Basically, when support for Windows 7 ends in a few years, I'll really have to weigh my options. I'll put serious consideration into Linux or Mac OSX at that time. Or, for all intents and purposes something like a Chromebook would probably work since everything is becoming more browser-centric.
    Daphnes likes this.
  14. @ruantec

    @ruantec Crazy GFX coder Emu Author

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    I officially give up on Windows 10 mobile devices. I used to like my Windows Phone but sadly they are to stupid to get it right. MS incompetence is incredible and i wonder what those highly payed dudes actually do or if they simply hired the most untalented people on earth. To remind myself why I shouldn't buy a Windows Phone again I made this video:

    Pay attention how Edge completely get fucked up when i browse the web.... and that's just one of many apps that simply doesn't work right. At the end of the video Edge simply crashes....


    To complete the combo the display is turning yellow on the edges and is just a matter of time until is fucked up. I don't have this device since long time but is clear that Nokia wasn't behind the development of this device. Since I have an allergy against apples i guess Androids will do the better job.
  15. Samor

    Samor CEO and Chief Editor of Samor Foundry

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    ^this.
    I'll stick with Win10 but it's not ideal... better than 8 yeah (for desktops), but that wasn't hard...
  16. Daphnes

    Daphnes King of Hyrule

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    Ditto. Also, android has a million options and brands, so you can pick whatever you want/need.
  17. resolutespider5

    resolutespider5 I mustache you a queshtion

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    I can's say I like the Android interface much, something really unfriendly about it. I've never had a windows phone.

    I still think iOS is the best touch interface, although I preferred it before Jonny Ive messed it up.
  18. Thanakil

    Thanakil NGemu Award Winner Award Winner!

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    Is this the thread where I can complain about W10?
    Right now, Microsoft's "Connected User Experiences and Telemetry" is eating 30% of my CPU. I'm just on my desktop, doing nothing. I realized my CPU usage was high when it was at 98% while playing Fallout 4. The game doesn't need that much.
    This is the Service used to collect data on people using W10. Since I'm part of their testing program (and get W10 free for it), I don't mind that they collect data. That's the point of the program: I test shit, I break shit, they get data, they fix shit.
    But eating 30% of my CPU for no reason? What's going on? Did they find my porn folder or what.

    The second issue I recently had with W10 was a few days ago. I had a minor bug and wanted to see where it came from, so I opened msconfig and changed my startup to "Diagnostic Startup". I wanted to disable anything superfluous to make things simpler.
    And then Windows didn't boot anymore. Or rather, it would reach the phase where normally I can log in my account, but instead gave me a wheel spinning into infinity. Nothing could be done.
    So, when that kind of thing happens, the answer is simple, right? I should simply boot into safe mode, open msconfig again, and then re-enable everything. Or worse case scenario, do a system restore.

    Except this is W10, and reaching safe mode was made a pain in the ass. You get 3 ways to do it, but they require that you are ALREADY in Windows to execute them. You cannot do it before.
    Then there's a fourth way. The classic way. "Press F8 or whatever". Except now it doesn't work on modern hardware anymore because of changes made in W10. So I couldn't do that either.
    Yep, it sucked. In the end, I found an additional way, which people don't talk about.
    When my PC was booting, I waited until it reached the screen where it shows that Windows is being loaded (not before, doesn't work otherwise) and held the Power button on my tower. To force it to shutdown.
    This tricks windows into giving you a diagnostic screen the next time you power on your PC. From that screen, it was possible to access a few "save-my-ass" features, including Safe Mode.
    For some reason, re-enabling services/programs in MsConfig didn't work, I did have to do a system restore. Which thankfully was based on my PC a few hours earlier, so no real harm done there.
    I'm just annoyed that MS made such an important feature harder to reach when you most need it.
  19. Thanakil

    Thanakil NGemu Award Winner Award Winner!

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    Explorer.exe crashed and then restarted.
    Alright, that's cool. That happens.
    Except... My start menu was completely reset for some reason. All my shortcuts and shit, disappeared.
    But hey, on the bright side, Microsoft replaced this with 3 icons. One of which was an ad for the the Store saying I could buy Quantum Break for 75$.
    [​IMG]
  20. @ruantec

    @ruantec Crazy GFX coder Emu Author

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    ^ That's because you are so passionate about every Quantum Break bad news that MS decided to troll you ;)
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2016
  21. Hyuga

    Hyuga Classic Games Lover

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    My wife traded in her Lumia 640 for an iPhone 5. Never seen her so relieved.

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